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Adamitalia
Member since Jun-5-03
3 posts |
Jun-05-03, 11:31 AM (EST) |
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"FACTS and opinions"
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Granted, this site is devoted to Joe Jackson, however we will not lie for Joe, we don't have to I'm a little confused. Maybe you can "straighten" me out. I was reading the section entitled "FACTS" and under a few facts I noticed the word "opinion". Maybe everything my college theory professors ever taught me was wrong but doesn't the word "opinion" denote someone's claim, that although may be based on real events, is simply an interpretation of the information presented? Facts on the other hand is something that is objectively real and can be proven with empirical knowledge. In light of this, I must point to the little intro that precedes the "FACT" section, a portion of which I included above. I agree with you, I don't think you are lieing, but I do believe that you are biased. Anyone that takes opinions and unabashadly claims they are facts is biased. Also, testimony is not fact. The event of testimony is fact, but what someone says is most certainly not fact. Again another example of bias on your part. I'm not saying the shoeless bastard shouldn't be reinstated or that I am not biased myself (indeed I am), but call it for what it is. If there's one thing I hate, its the improper use of argument. |
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VHOF Staff
Member since Oct-2-02
44 posts |
Jun-05-03, 12:06 PM (EST) |
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1. "RE: FACTS and opinions"
In response to message #0
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Well....first of all we must assume (and granted...we hate to ASSUME anything....but without more specific info we will do that just this once), that you are referring to the page entitled: "Facts Relating to Joe Jackson and the 1919 Black Sox Scandal". If that is the page you are talking about...and again....our answer here is based on that assumption......we only make one reference to the word "opinion"...and it is used as information pertaining to a FACT.....the FACT reads as follows:
"Joe knew about the fix, but again in our opinion did not participate in throwing any games (based on his statistics for the series). Joe should have been banned for a few years for his "guilty knowledge" of the affair, but should have been allowed back in the game once that sentence was done. On the same note......Comiskey should have been banned, Gleason and others should have been banned for the same time period......they all had "guilty knowledge" of the fix and did nothing to expose it."Here we are just using the opportunity to re-state from our research what we believe to be the case....that Joe did not participate in the fix. We're not saying it's FACT.......the FACT in this particular line is that Joe did indeed know about the fix........everything else is our opinion...which we are entitled to do at that point....we have stated a FACT...which cannot be deny "Joe knew about the fix" Granted it may not meet all the requirements that one of your fancy professors put down for your class......but none of us around here had that professor....nor took that class. Well.....we guess we are biased.....this is a site devoted to Shoeless Joe Jackson.....but if you read the front page of our site.....we ask that you not believe anything you read on this site......nor believe anything that a naysayer may say about Joe.....but that you go and do the research yourself....get the answer for yourself......if you do this....it will become apparent....pretty quick...that the simply truth of the matter is......Joe did not participate in the fixing of the Series of 1919, that he got kicked out of baseball for no apparent real reason. Again....the above answer is based on the assumption that your are indeed talking about the page we referred to above. Please understand....we didn't get our degree in debate...nor did we waste our time in college taking such a course.....we spent our time on getting a degree that would make us a living....so we apologize if we piss you off with our approach...that is not our intention.....our intention is to get folks interested in the subject matter enough to go get the answer for themselves....because we know if they do....they will come to the same conclusion we all did over 17 years ago.....and that is ole Joe was more sinned on than he sinned...and you can call that fact, fiction, bias or whatever.......
-- VHOF Staff |
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Mike Nola
Member since Oct-2-02
13 posts |
Jun-07-03, 02:53 PM (EST) |
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9. "RE: FACTS and opinions"
In response to message #4
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I normally don't get too involved on the Board, but thought I ought to let you know. You surely did not get anyone around here in any kind of knotted panties situation, we're way past that with this Jackson stuff, in fact, folks such as yourself only motivate us to continue to do what we have been doing for Joe going on some 18 years now. It's the right thing to do, I apologize if I am not as formal as you would like in debate, but as my staff said in an earlier post, I was not formally educated in such. So while the composition of the page may not read to a highly educated person the way you feel it should, the fact remains, Mr. Jackson was wrongfully put out of baseball while many others with far greater knowledge of the fix sit in the Baseball Hall of Fame. If you think that is fair justice, we pray you are never appointed a federal judge, hope that you never run for political office or worse yet teach any of our kids. Views such as yours and from what little you have written, not well researched views are what is partly wrong with the world today. Again, understand I don't care too much about your views, you are surely entitled to them, as I am to mine about Jackson (that's what this country is founded on). You cannot really believe that mess you spit out about our moral code of ethics can you??? Oh my God, have you read the morning paper lately, all we're trying to do is have the man's name cleared, for Christ's sake, Joe has been dead for over 51 years. His continued punishment serves no purpose, it doesn't stop a modern day player from throwing games, it serves no purpose!! Anyway, I'm not getting into a pissing contest with you over this, you believe as you do, I believe as I do. We can agree to disagree at best and leave it at that. I hope you will continue to post here, that is what this Forum is all about, Thanks for your time.. -- Mike Nola |
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