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Subject: "Reinstatement"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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deadballbob
Member since Nov-27-02
11 posts
Nov-27-02, 11:09 AM (EST)
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"Reinstatement"
 
   1. Has anyone ever placed on the 'ineligible' list ever been reinstated by the same or a different commissioner?

2. Is the list a "permanently ineligible list" or "lifetime ineligible"?

3. What is the highest percentage of votes for election to the hall that Joe received and what year?

Great site, btw


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RedSoxfan
Member since Aug-12-03
3 posts
Aug-12-03, 10:26 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #0
 
   Pete Rose has just had his ban lifted. http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2194

Time to reinstate Joe!!!


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VHOF Staffadmin
Member since Oct-2-02
50 posts
Aug-15-03, 01:16 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #12
 
Well......we wouldn't be getting out the liquor just yet....this is after all....and Internet journalism site and one can not always believe what they read on such as site. But then again....one can not always believe what comes out of the Commissioner's Office either.....lets just say....we're not buying much of that stock just yet.......we'll believe it when CNN, ESPN or someone of that nature runs the story!!!.

-- VHOF Staff


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deadballbob
Member since Nov-27-02
11 posts
Aug-12-03, 10:58 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #12
 
   If this is true, Bud Selig is a bigger idiot that I ever imagined. Pete should be eligible for the Hall but still should not be allowed anywhere near a baseball field in an official capacity.


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RedSoxfan
Member since Aug-12-03
3 posts
Aug-12-03, 01:13 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #13
 
  
The plot thickens!!

Major League Baseball's chief operating officer, Bob DuPuy, shot down a Baseball Prospectus report Tuesday that claimed Pete Rose already has signed an agreement to be reinstated in 2004, calling it "totally unfounded, totally unsubstantiated" and "journalistically irresponsible."

Baseball Prospectus, in a statement in response to DuPuy's denial, stood by its story, saying the report "was compiled using reliable sources. We believe that, in the end, our report will be found to be accurate."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/story?id=1594520


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bosstonefan1
Member since Jun-4-03
16 posts
Aug-12-03, 06:17 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #15
 
Petes in,... Time to vote Joe IN!!!

*Life is but a dream*


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RedSoxfan
Member since Aug-12-03
3 posts
Aug-12-03, 12:43 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #13
 
   I agree 100%!


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bosstonefan1
Member since Jun-4-03
16 posts
Aug-16-03, 03:38 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #14
 
Jason Stark, a writer for a decent
Philly paper said that,
regardless of the baseball perspectous report,
the first thing our estemed commish will do after the this years'
Series is over is work on getting Pete up for his "Vote" into the Hall
Grand Say I!
I will be in Cooperstown when Joe takes his place in the Hall!

*Life is but a dream*


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joe408
Member since Nov-14-02
32 posts
Feb-11-03, 07:56 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #0
 
   Ray Fisher, a pitcher for the old Cinncinatti Reds, was banned for life by Landis for refusing to honor his contract, however, Bowie Kuhn re-instated Fisher many years later, I'll bet that old sour puss Landis was turning in his grave.


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VHOF Staffadmin
Member since Oct-2-02
50 posts
Dec-12-02, 12:33 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #0
 
>1. Has anyone ever placed on the 'ineligible' list ever been
>reinstated by the same or a different commissioner?

Yes a few players come to mind.....a couple of well known ones like Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays were suspended and then reinstated and there have been others......Alabama Pitts for one was reinstated by Landis after Landis banned him because he was a convicted felon.

>
>2. Is the list a "permanently ineligible list" or "lifetime
>ineligible"?

Currently if you are on the list.....it is permanently ineligible. If it were a lifetime ban....Joe Jackson would have had his named cleared from that list on December 5, 1951....the date he died!!
>
>3. What is the highest percentage of votes for election to
>the hall that Joe received and what year?

Up until Rule 6(e) was instituted by the Hall of Fame, Joe received votes on the various ballots...however we do not have the percentages. We would guess it would have been quite low...as most of the sports writers of the day were around during the Scandal...and most held ill will to anyone associated with it....guilty or not.
>
>Great site, btw

Thanks for the kudos!!!

-- VHOF Staff


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deadballbob
Member since Nov-27-02
11 posts
Dec-12-02, 05:53 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #1
 
   So, Joe WILL be the first reinstated from the permanently ineligible list.


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VHOF Staffadmin
Member since Oct-2-02
50 posts
Dec-16-02, 11:10 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #2
 
>So, Joe WILL be the first reinstated from the permanently
>ineligible list.

Not sure what the status of Pitts, Mantle and Mays were......it's kind of foggy...this so-called Ineligible List.....we don't think even MLB can tell you who's on it and who on it is permanently ineligible

-- VHOF Staff


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heehee38
Member since Dec-16-02
1 posts
Dec-16-02, 10:45 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #2
 
   What i will never understand is why is it that a man that was acquitted in a court of law of any wrongdoing was banned in the first place. Then we have a man by the name of Rose who accepted a ban due to his gambling problem and now wishes for and could possibly be reinstated, especially if he admits to having bet on games. In my mind that makes no sense at all.

Luis


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VHOF Staffadmin
Member since Oct-2-02
50 posts
Dec-16-02, 11:13 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #3
 
> What i will never understand is why is it that a man that
>was acquitted in a court of law of any wrongdoing was banned
>in the first place. Then we have a man by the name of Rose
>who accepted a ban due to his gambling problem and now
>wishes for and could possibly be reinstated, especially if
>he admits to having bet on games. In my mind that makes no
>sense at all.

It all has to do with MLB anti-trust status back then and one that is holds to this day....the right to govern itself. That is exactly what Landis meant by his "Regardless of the verdict of juries" statement. It did not matter what the courts said....MLB was able to govern (police) itself for it's own good....and that is what Landis thought was for it's own good...even thought it was a tad harsh for the supposed crime Joe committed against the game.

-- VHOF Staff


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deadballbob
Member since Nov-27-02
11 posts
Dec-16-02, 10:57 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #3
 
   You are right Luis, there is no justice. Rose did agree to his sentence. Recent statements by the investigator in the case, Mr. Dowd, lead us to believe that Rose not only bet on baseball but even bet against his own team. However, the rules governing Rose's penalty were changed after the fact. At the time he accepted the lifetime ban, he would have still been eligible for the Hall. I think Rose should be allowed entrance to the Hall of Fame but should be allowed nowhere near a major league field.


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VHOF Staffadmin
Member since Oct-2-02
50 posts
Dec-16-02, 11:19 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #4
 
Well...we don't believe for a second that Rose bet against the Reds....but we do believe he bet on them to win.....and the problem with that is that on the days he did not place bets on the Reds....he was basically telling the bookies to bet against the Reds without saying as much......in a way he was saying I don't feel to confident today in my team...so you better bet against us. Rose committed the cardinal sin when he bet on the game.......it's in Rule 21....all the players, managers, umpires...anyone associated with MLB knows the rule....it's in every clubhouse......Rose committed this sin because he was so heavy in debt and desperate to get out of it...he bet on the one sport he knew he could get his money back on.....BASEBALL......problem is...he knew he was committing the cardinal sin and he knew what the price for that sin would be......in our opinion....Rose has not served his time....Joe Jackson has!!

-- VHOF Staff


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deadballbob
Member since Nov-27-02
11 posts
Dec-17-02, 11:59 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #7
 
   Random thoughts....

Did the Hall of Fame make the rule that players on the ineligible list are also ineligible for the Hall of Fame?

Arent MLB and the HOF two separate entities one has no control over the other?

Was this rule made specifically to keep Rose out?

Would it be useful to appeal to the Board of Directors of the Hall of Fame to revise the current eligibility rules? It seems as if these rules are revised frequently anyway whenever one slips through to the hall. (Read: Bill Mazeroski belong and Joe doesn't?) I know they changed them recently to prevent Ted Williams from voting for every teammate. The Hall of Fame Board consists of some wonderful baseball people (and even Bud Selig) and they may be open to reason.

- Bob


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VHOF Staffadmin
Member since Oct-2-02
50 posts
Dec-17-02, 01:18 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #8
 
The Hall of Fame did indeed institute Rule 6e....commonly known as the Rose Ruling. It was instituted to prevent anyone on MLB's "so-called" Ineligible List from being inducted into the Hall. MLB and HOF are seperate entities....but The Hall stays politically correct with MLB.....always has. The Hall is free to do what they want...but they stay PC and do not step on the toes of MLB. Well...it is called the Rose Ruling....so we guess you could say it was designed to keep Rose out. We suspect that the Hall would simply point one back to MLB stating as long as someone is on the Ineligible List....the Hall will not consider them....it's the ole passing the buck thing....and the Hall has done it nicely since the Rose Ruling was instituted.

-- VHOF Staff


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deadballbob
Member since Nov-27-02
11 posts
Dec-18-02, 05:11 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Reinstatement"
In response to message #9
 
   So, would it do any good to modify the "Selig Letter" to be mailed to all the board members of the Hall of Fame? They (the HOF) recently changed the rules that allowed some veterans to become HOF eligible again after they had supposedly used all of their chances. Does the Basball Writers Association, the voters, have any pull?

It would be interesting to see how Joe fared when he was eligible (i.e. before the Rose Rule) The HOF didn't exist until 16 years after the 1920 decision. Does anyone know the last year that Joe was considered by the veterans committee?

Have a Happy Holiday everyone...


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